Friday, February 11, 2005

Support And Appreciation For "Letter From A Senior Student"

Here are a few comments expressing support and appreciation for "Letter From A Senior Student."

[A reminder to our readers--please don't forget to click on the "Comments" link on the bottom of posts to see how readers respond! Soon these comments should appear as "pop-ups" so you may wish to turn off any pop-up blocker on your browser when you view this site.]

At Monday, 07 February, 2005, Anonymous said...
Anastasi, your post in particular has really touched me. Thank you.

At Monday, 07 February, 2005, Anonymous said...
Thank you Anastasi,you have pulled back the curtain and the light is shining brightly on all that has been seething in the darkness. This is a great gift to all, including and most especially Andrew. Freedom abounds and the Truth is clear.

At Tuesday, 08 February, 2005, Simon Moore said...
Dear Ernest

i have always known you as Ernest.....

Someone just drew my attention to this site, and i havent had a chance to read much yet. i was a student of Andrews for about 4 years or so, in California, Fox Hollow and London, where i am from. Anyway, i will probably write about that soon....

Just wanted to thank you for what you have written and wish you well. i have always been impressed by those who showed so much Heart in giving so much to Andrew and his 'Community'. Some of these people were really consistently beautiful,and it was upsetting when they left. One aspect of the Community is that people really loved each other like comrades on the battle field ! That love seems to be alive and well outside Andrew's Community, so its not all bad !

Anyway its good to find out what happened and make up our own minds.

Mainly i just wanted to say hello and pay my respects...

Love Simon

At Tuesday, 08 February, 2005, Anonymous said...
Hi Ernest (Stas)

Peter M here - Thanks you so much for sharing your heart so clearly. As you know I left 'the Revolution' a few months before you, having smashed headlong into the same wall. Its been a roller coaster ride in the last two years trying to make sense of the whole experience - the undoubted taste of real freedom and truth and the horror of finding the impossibility of meeting Andrew's constantly escalating demands on my loyalty to him - you have articulated the whole process so clearly - I'm not sure that this is ever a dilemma I will fully resolve, but having the space and freedom to finally be able to voice all those doubts and confusions that kept growing because they could never be explored within the 'community', is a taste of freedom itself. Surrender could never mean a total abandonment of one's own critical faculties (as was actually expected in respect to Andrew's actions and demands - so much for Autonomy!). i only hope that Andrew hears what is being said, because I have no doubt that he is an Awakened One but one in whom the whole process is far from complete.....

At Thursday, 10 February, 2005, Anonymous said...
Dear Stas
Thank you so much for your contribution to this blog and also to the administrators who have let it stand out this week. I was with Andrew Cohen for several years and Ernest's heart felt, articulate and moving letter puts the whole of my own experience in perspective. There's almost nothing more that can be said.


Blogger freewilly said...

Won't just one of the once deeply involved ex-students posting here admit that they came to a point where they were unwilling to sacrifice anymore to be free? If they would, this would be a more balanced discussion.

Maybe I'm the only one of those speaking who's willing to admit that I was fully aware that I was choosing - so to speak - hell over heaven when I made my decision to "go back to the world." It didn't mean I planned on being miserable, just that I knew that if I really wanted to continue to burn I was already in the right place. Reading these other posts, you’d think they were all written by angels just doing their best – no complicity at all in leaving Andrew or in any of the “outrageous” actions Andrew took as their teacher.

Several posters in this blog play off the doubt and cynicism in us by speaking about how some consider Andrew to be a “living Buddha” – and using that in a mocking fashion to indicate how cultish they believe the event surrounding Andrew has become. But don’t forget that these same posters DO NOT BELIEVE that human purity and perfection is possible – they say so in many ways themselves via the pervading “to err is human” attitude of this blog. If you still believe in that rarified possibility, then it behooves you to look past this rhetoric from people that are rewriting history to serve themselves.

What any person who considers being a student of Andrew Cohen DOES need to know, is that he's not kidding around. As amazing as it sounds, there IS a teacher alive today who not only can grace you with awakening, but who is both capable AND willing to suffer with you in the process of exterminating your ego - or die trying.


Saturday, 12 February, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Dear Dave,
Where does common senses end and cynicism begin? How far does one really have to go to feel in one’s soul that something is wrong? And how can you be so sure, when you leave that is all ego that made you go away? Again could it be that it is just some shred of common sense left that makes us sever the bond we have cherished the most?
Most of us that have been fairly close to Andrew and so deeply immersed in the community were actually really sincere. Most of us were really committed to going ‘all the way’. That is why we spent hours doing our practice, why we gave our time and our energy to make the whole thing work. Sure the regrets came later, once we were kicked out with nothing more than a ‘you are a jerk, or you are the devil’ kind of speech. Who would not be resentful after having given so much time, money, energy and love to the whole endeavor?
Yes, we all wanted perfection and evolution to reign supreme. That is why we have all been there for so long, we were willing. Why would not Andrew simply recognize that? Sure some more than others, but still most of us where profoundly committed.
And because of our commitment, of our love for the situation, of our idealism, to leave Andrew and to leave the community was a very devastating step. I think to leave the guru must be one of the hardest ‘break-ups’ one has to go through in life. Most of us upon leaving the community and Andrew have left our ‘raison d'être’. And that is very deep, very powerful per se. But Andrew never acknowledges that. Upon us leaving he made only sure we knew he had no respect for us.
That is sad and I would say needlessly harsh.
Where is the love? Not a drop of it, in retrospect. Where is the support? I do not really understand this ‘guru’ tactics, unless I think of the expression ‘kick them when they are down’. Because that is where most of us are when we leave. Down, destroyed and shadows of ourselves. Let’s face it, it can take years to recover from having left. Sometimes years go by before one finds oneself again and with that some happiness and confidence in life. But Andrew never even seems to be aware of that. If we are out, in his eyes, our life is wasted.
And you consider the world outside the community hell and us cynical?

To tell you the truth I’ve found much wisdom, joy and humility outside the community. Who is the cynical person? I would really like to know.

Tuesday, 15 February, 2005  
Blogger freewilly said...

Dear Anonymous,

I respectfully disagree with your opinions, they are very different from these other posts. No matter how you slice it, I can understand Andrew and the community's side of what you perceive as "needlessly harsh."

Specifically you made a few comments I wanted to respond to:

YOU SAID "And you consider the world outside the community hell and us cynical? . . .To tell you the truth I’ve found much wisdom, joy and humility outside the community. Who is the cynical person? I would really like to know."

I agree with you about finding wisdom, joy and humility outside the community - I have as well. But, the context is radically different. The pursuit of a happy and joyful life with one's friends and family is not even remotely similar to the one-pointed pursuit of liberation in this life, for the sake of the whole - and all that that implies and entails.

The cynical person is one who has lost faith in that possibility, and who in their delusion seeks to destroy that which they once knew for a fact was true and pure in order to protect and inflate their self image.

FURTHER, YOU SAID: "Upon us leaving he made only sure we knew he had no respect for us. That is sad and I would say needlessly harsh. Where is the love? Not a drop of it, in retrospect. Where is the support?"

While I can appreciate your point - I mean if we were so serious and if indeed that is such a rare thing, wouldn't Andrew have found SOME way to keep us there? - I feel that in the end that's just my ego talking. After all, am I really as significant as that view makes me out to be? Am I really so serious when in fact I did not have the guts to fully face myself at all costs?

Imagine what kind of evolutionary standard would be upheld if Andrew had to spend his time pandering to the ego's of those who were about to abandon him – instead of on the outrageously bold and rare task he’s set himself to?


Thursday, 17 February, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hey Dave,

You were a nice guy. I'm sorry you are living in such a hell realm of confusion.

Forget that guy Andrew. You and everyone were just barking up the wrong tree. You're much better off now, even if you don't know it. Forget him and move on.


Thursday, 17 February, 2005  
Blogger freewilly said...

Dear Anonymous,

Cynicism and delusion can be very insideous.


Thursday, 17 February, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


Yes, and insidious, too. :)

But seriously, what was said was really meant to help--call it a wake up call, friend--and it was a lot less harsh than a slap, a beating or a bucket of red paint.

Thursday, 17 February, 2005  
Blogger freewilly said...

Dear Gardian Aingel,

When did i sine up for you're services? I have not recieved a bill. Please forword at your soonist conveinyence.

While you're at it, re-read my posts because you missed all the important points and in fact the context itself. Thanks for the free advice, but my purpose in posting here is not for hugs but was a feeble (apparently) attempt at injecting reality and context into this increasingly bizzare blog.


Friday, 18 February, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I do apologize, Dave, for getting rather personal with you and for being offensive. That was a mistake. It is just that I find your position, as expressed in your posts, sad and a bit frustrating. It expresses well the dead-end that Andrew's "all or nothing" kind of teaching can lead to.

I don't see most of the postings on the blog here as cynical. Quite the contrary. I think they indicate, for the most part, a great faith in the possibiity of connection, reconciliation and change--and this in the face of past abuse from Andrew and current hostility from his main defenders.

If some kind of human perfection is a possibility, it has to do with fulfilling the potential to be a living expression of love. I don't see that expressed in Andrew, his defenders or his community. I think the facts speak for themselves. They don't seem to show any actual proof in action or attitude of the awakening you claim Andrew can "grace" us with. Who and where are those awakened people that Andrew has produced, anyway? I see folks who are for the most part very sincere, but who have all the flaws that the rest of us have. I also see quite a bit of self-aggrandizement and self-righteousness mixed with their idealism.

I hope that you might consider that your leaving the community was not "choosing hell" as you put it, but was an intelligent response to a mistaken approach to awakening. Thinking, "I just wasn't up to it, so I chose hell" seems to me to be the real cynicism. Facing yourself and your weaknesses is not the same as condemning yourself to hell. Isn't it possible that your own intelligence guided you and continues to guide you in what you do? I will try to refrain from giving you "hugs" but I tend to think you have a lot more going for yourself than you think. Not believing in yourself and in the possibility of awakening and freedom independent of Andrew or his community seems to me to be the ultimate cynicism, and is very sad.

Saturday, 19 February, 2005  
Anonymous Rebecca Saxon said...

Good Answer, Anonymous. But I still don't understand all this anonymous nonsense. Why not say who you are? (I just don't get it), but I am pretty open.

I am also aware that this "freewilly" or "Dave" character you so eloquently wrote to could have been anyone... even a present student of Andrew's or maybe even AC himself.

Good work clarifying some challenging concepts.

Thursday, 12 August, 2010  

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