Saturday, March 12, 2005

To Heal One is To Heal All

by anonymous

I extend my respects, and my ever-breaking heart, to the contributors of this blog. To those who are suffering, to those who are healing and thriving. . .and to Andrew, and to his serious and dedicated students who pour out their hearts’ sincerity and the depth of longing into what they hope to be the greatest possibility for their lifetime. None of us is so different from each other, blind but sincere voyagers on this Ship of Fools.

I am not a student of Andrew, but have followed his work for many years, and have received teachings from him on more than one occasion that were of valuable help to my sadhana. I would like to share a precious teaching lesson Andrew once offered me, and with open hands and heart offer it back to him in return.

Many years ago, as a young practitioner on the path, I visited Andrew. At the time I was like many of us, totally ambitious, totally naïve, believing that my wish for Truth was greater than the others, that I was destined for spiritual greatness, that I was, somehow, special. Surely many of us can admit to such a feeling, if only in the privacy of our hearts? That is why Hafiz wrote, “But still God is delighted and amused, you once tried to be a saint.”

Though I believed nothing could come between myself and the most radical and uncompromised truth, I was struggling with a broken practice, with resistance.
I shyly raised me hand, “Andrew, how do I work with the great NO inside of me? How do I overcome this tremendous resistance to practice that keeps me from Truth?”

“Give me an example, Andrew flashed back, playful suspicion in his eyes. “Tell me how this great NO shows up in practical terms.”

I told him of my fall from grace earlier that day, which amounted to a breach of practice so minor as to be perceptible only to myself.

“Oh my God!” Andrew theatrically jumped in, laughing, instantly disarming my self-seriousness and grandiosity. “Did you hear that?” he turned to his students.

“Listen, sweetie,” he turned to me with the piercing swords of discernment, the mood instantly changed. “You’re young, you’re serious and you are just beginning. On this path you are going to make a LOT of mistakes, and some of those mistakes are going to be BIG ones. Everybody does. It is guaranteed. Save your energy and remorse for the big mistakes because you are going to make them and you are going to need your energy to get through them. Got it?”

I think we all got it in that moment, the inevitability of a fall I could not imagine, the humanness of it, the humility of it, and the need to show up as a true spiritual warrior when the time would come.

It is 10 years later. Andrew has made some big mistakes. Some of the ones he said we would all make. The accrual of casualties in terms of the abuse of money, power, and emotional manipulatin, just to name a few of the “crimes of unconsciousness,” are undeniable.

It is a precious moment. What appears to be a devastating shock can become a healing crisis if it is related to with deep courage. A doorway is open that may not stay open for too long. It is a moment in which Andrew can use the fruits of his sadhana, the energy that he still has accumulated, to gracefully work his way through his present predicament. This is the moment in his own life that he was telling me about, one of the BIG mistakes, in which we cash in some of our hard-earned accumulation of energy in order to create a significant healing and transformation.

People can be tremendously resilient and forgiving. When approached from the humility of true remorse and heartbreak, and the admission of human error, hearts open and karma is undone.

Those hurt by Andrew were, of course, mutually complicit in the drama they were a part of. Our neurotic wounds and needs unconsciously kidnap the teachings in service of themselves, and so both neurosis of teacher and student were feeding off each other. This is an inevitable symptom of the times we are in, times of great possibility and a time in which our collective psychological wounding has penetrated to such a collective and epidemic level that none us, including teachers, are immune from its influence. The question is, “Can we work our way out of it?” If we really believe in evolution, this is the humble domain in which it is learned and lived.

Many years ago, Claudio Naranjo, after being fully enlightened for three years, running a thriving spiritual community, came to the stark realization and admission that his enlightenment was not complete. In spite of protests from his students, he dismantled his organization and dethroned himself as guru. He later explained that his own enlightenment had to be sacrificed in order to illuminate that which was still dark within him.

A friend of mine was a very close student of Yogi Amrit Desai. In fact, she was one of those who sued him for his sex scandals (enacted on her) and won the lawsuit. Much later, they did mediation together. Eventually, therapy. Many years later she returned to him as his student, and they now have a mature, thriving, adult relationship as guru and disciple. Corruption and transmission can coexist! Change is possible. Forgiveness is possible.

Let us remember that none of us are beyond falling. Most of us have not been given enough power, authority and fame to fully appreciate the subtlety and pulls of its temptations. We actually cannot know that we would not do as Andrew has done, given the complexity of historical and karmic factors he faces. Most of us have not penetrated the subtleties of dharmic wisdom deeply enough to fully appreciate the degree to which the still unconscious aspects of ego can co-opt Truth into a sterling silver layer of armor and defense, all flawlessly justifiable in the language of Truth itself. Most of us are not beyond falling into the traps that Andrew has fallen into.

However, as a world teacher and model, Andrew is now in an incredible position to offer us an extremely potent teaching lesson about how an authentic teacher can allow himself to become dismantled and dethroned in order to assume the true throne of Disciple of Truth, of Love, of Life. Through his own umcompromised practice, Andrew could, through an essential and brave gesture, undergo the greatest teaching lesson of his own life - turning toward EVERYTHING that is within him, including deep psychological wounds and their consequences, humility, hurt, blindness, in order to demonstrate to all of us that a true visionary will stop short of nothing in his journey to Truth, even the dethroning of his own empire. I envision that the humility of such an action would invoke the forgiveness and support of all of those who, in their heart of hearts, still love him. Things that may still be to come, lawsuits, more difficult books, this blog, could be dropped, forgiven, erased, and even transformed into the fruition of a still greater truth.

I am sure the Gods would sing. The great gurus would arise from their cremated ashes and bestow blessings, forgiveness, the undoing of karma, and true praise for an act of such human bravery. The hearts of present and former disciples would be disarmed in the beauty of Andrew’s humility, and something deep within them could forgive, let go, and all of us could learn something painfully deep and humanly real about the teaching that “there is no other.”

Andrew, you offered me that precious lesson long ago: “Save yourself for the big mistakes because you are going to make them and you are going to need your energy to get through them.” Now demonstrate to all of us how it is done, so when our time comes we will have the courage to do the same.

With All Respects


Blogger Daeneon said...

I was truly touched by the eloquence of the last blog.

Nothing can happen without forgiveness. We have to start with ourselves first and trust what will appear out of that.

This blog has really made "me" stop and think.

Saturday, 12 March, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It is truly mind boggling that there are people on this blog who would suggest that we give Andrew a second chance at abusing us; with the nascent hope that he has mended his ways and has finally evolved.

Saturday, 12 March, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Nothing about ourselves can change until we first accept our own shadow side within and grant it reality. The work of transformation begins with us!. Shadow work is the initiary phase of making a WHOLE of ourselves.

We cannot force Andrew to look at his shadow side for he may be blinded to its reality, and only see himself as perfect, but we can change ourselves and heal. Any change in Andrew has to come from within him.

We can choose to be a person whom we respect, we can choose behavior we can stand by and which produces no remorse. It is possible, but only if the choices are clear and we make them consciously. Awareness of our own shadow personality can dissolve its unconscious power over our choices in life.

That is why it is so important to not blame another for our circumstances in life and to always take full responsibility for what we do and the outcome for same in each and every relationship with another.

During the years with Andrew, the students postings reveal that often the inner voice beckoned them by pointing out that their relationship with Andrew was not healthy, yet the inner voice was ignored for a long time.

So let us start with ourselves. The gold is in the awareness of choice, made possible by mediating the tension between our shadow and our ego. A better world will then bless us all.

Love to all and healthy changes,

Sunday, 13 March, 2005  
Blogger Daeneon said...

I feel that you missed the point in her blog. She wasn't saying to go back and be abused.
I would suggest you go back and read the blog again. Maybe you could find within yourself, what she was really saying. Andrew, will do what he does. It's about what will you do, when the big one faces you?

It's always about "you".

Sunday, 13 March, 2005  
Anonymous Stuart said...

This is my first post here. My connection to Andrew's group comes through reading & meeting some of his people. My interest in this discussion comes from my own interest in facing the great question "What am I?" through formal meditation, inquiry, moment-to-moment life, & any means available.

For over a decade my main style of practice has been with a Zen school. I believe there are similarities between what I've experienced, & what some people talk of experiencing with Andrew. There are also great differences in how Andrew's group operates. I'd like to bring this up to see how it resonates.

One thing that strikes me is how people are talking about considering Andrew the "source" of whatever experiences they get, & how they seem to feel great personal debt to him (to the point of literally going into debt to make donations to get back into his good graces.) This is in contrast to what I found in the Zen school. The Zen masters I met presented themselves as people pointing me towards true nature. As if I were metaphorically looking for water, & they were offering a map I could follow to find a spring for myself. Never was there any suggestion that they were the "source" of anything I got.

In Buddhism, there's always the suggestion to direct one's life to helping others, "helping all beings" as it's often put. If one gets a Big Experience, or if one gets anything else, the decision is still the same: "How can I help others in this moment?" Of course the teacher performs the special function of pointing to truth, but there's never the suggestion that gratitude should be so exclusively directed at this one person.

I'm also struck by the way Andrew's organization is spoken of as if it has a special truth, or holiness, or higher place than the rest of the world. There's a different presentation in the school I'm familar with. I've gotten the teaching that Truth is already present everywhere. So a Zen Center (or whatever) isn't special; it's a place to practice finding that mind that clearly reflects the truth that's present in all people, places, & things already.

The final thing that struck me is that someone spoke of getting a Big Experience with Andrew, & then wanting to make it permanent. This runs counter to the teaching I've gotten of recognizing everything as always changing, coming & going. The teaching that wanting or holding anything leads to suffering.

At one point when I told a Zen master of a Big Experience I'd had recently, he said, "Do you want to get it back?"

"Yeah!" I replied.

"Then you can't have it," he said.

The sense of meeting each moment (rather than wanting or holding special experiences), & of the teacher NOT glorifying himself by taking credit for all the students' good feelings... this seems generally different from the perspective that I've seen in some of the descriptions from Andrew's group.

I'd appreciate any feedback: is it just that Zen tradition is so different from Andrew's group that there's nothing to share? Or do the differences I see point to something that might be helpful for either or both perspectives?

To put it another way: is it possible that the direct experience that I got through Zen, others got with Andrew, & others got through many other paths... is it possible that these beyond-word experiences aren't so different? But that the explanations that are give, the way the experiences are used, may be completely different? So that if I had had my Big Experience with Andrew & had immediately been told that he was the "source" & that I now owed him everything, I'd have followed out of gratitude for the experience? But since I was instead with someone who didn't take any special credit, but directed me towards moment-to-moment life & helping all beings, that made the same experience lead to a different conclusion?


Sunday, 13 March, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Experiences are OK. Just don't make a big deal about it. :)

Sunday, 13 March, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

The idea that we create our own experience and are totally responsible for same is just an idea. I say thank you to Andrew's previous students for taking responsibility and posting on this blog to reveal the truth of what is happening in the community. Others can then be informed and make a clear choice for themselves. I do not hear anyone blaming Andrew for their experience but rather just stating the facts of what happened to them.
The truth is always liberating.

Sunday, 13 March, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

As a comparatively disinterested observer of this debate I can see most of us would like to 'categorise' the situation and so take a clear stance towards it. If Andrew is abusing power then people are 'right' to withdraw or even confront, but if he is a realized master then this would be the 'wrong' or mistaken approach. By being clear as to the 'truth' of the situation, we get to be self-righteous about our adopted response.

Once a fellow seeker described to me her experiences with a teacher I had reason to be dubious about (he had been unable to give much help to my wife.) As she told her story I became clear it was a genuine situation where his teaching had helped her to go beyond her previous limitations and to touch a space of trust and open-ness that was new to her. She also related the experiences of another participant who had been resistant to the guru, and in this circumstance the details just as clearly portrayed a situation of mere petty-minded abuse of power. The same teacher, same retreat; different facets, different outcomes.

Another Catholic friend noted that the most inspiring priest she ever met - quite obviously the most spritual man she had been in prayer sessions with - was subsequently convicted of paedophilia!

Black and White are not so conveniently separated as we would like them to be. Not in the outside world, not in spiritual life, not in our teachers, and not, if we care to look, inside ourselves.


Tuesday, 15 March, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Hello Shanti,
I assume you wouldn't want the paedophile priest to take care of your young child - and if you are sane and agree then things really are black and white. He is very inspiring - Yes! And he certainly belongs in prison or elsewhere far away from our children - Yes!
This isn't a convenient separation, it's just the way things are. If someone is a criminal it doesn't deny all good aspects of their character, but they did the crime...they do the time. Karma it's called elsewhere.

With respect

Tuesday, 15 March, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Shanti writes: "Black and White are not so conveniently separated as we would like them to be. Not in the outside world, not in spiritual life, not in our teachers, and not, if we care to look, inside ourselves."

I agree with this and do not know a single person who is oriented toward spirituality who would disagree.

But this does not mean that things are never black and white.

This can be explained via reference to Aristotle’s law of the excluded middle.

The law of the excluded middle requires that a thing must either possess a given attribute or must not possess it. The middle is excluded when there is no middle, when an issue actually is a black and white issue.

The law of the excluded middle is often misused. Politicians frequently word their arguments as if the middle is excluded, when there is indeed a middle position, in an attempt to force their opponents into positions they do not hold.

Plato wrote about the Sophists convincing a young man to agree that he was either “wise” or “ignorant,” offering no middle ground when indeed there should be.

Shanti writes: "If Andrew is abusing power then people are 'right' to withdraw or even confront, but if he is a realized master then this would be the 'wrong' or mistaken approach."

People often use terms like "realized master" in ways that seem to suggest or imply an excluded middle, meaning that there is no middle position: A teacher is either a realized master or is not a realized master, black or white.

One might ask if I'm suggesting that there is such a thing as partially realized, and if so, one might ask what value a partially realized teacher would have to seekers.

This is a language problem. As Ken Wilber has said, it makes no more sense to say that someone is fully enlightened or fully realized than it does to say that someone is fully educated.

Whenever anyone suggests or implies that a given teacher is a realized master, unless they also allow that realized masters can also have psychological blind spots and shadows, then they are excluding the psychological dimension of our humanness from the discussion.

Certain kinds of behavior warrant our censure or worse. As another anonymous poster said in response to Shanti's comments, a pedophile priest may also be very inspiring, and we still do not want him around children and most likely want him to be punished for his violation of a child's trust and for breaking a law that most of us would agree is a just law.

Andrew Cohen may have many fine points, he may help as many people as he's apparently harmed, and in that sense this is not a black and white situation. But whether or not one sees fit to censure him or call on him to answer to the accusations made against him is black and white.

Sometimes things are black and white, and sometimes things are not black and white. We need to think carefully about things to know when to exclude a middle position and when not to exclude a middle position.

Tuesday, 15 March, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To the last poster

So what's the story with you eh?
In support of Hal and all contributors including the ones you claim proselyse, we are all connected. Pain, trauma from abuse and sufferings affect all of us. To heal and move forward the release of painful experiences and sharing of same in a loving environment offers much needed support.

What support have you given poster?. Your negativity and unkindness shown for all lacks compassion. Hal and the other former students have had enough abuse so I suggest you are more sensitive to their needs and their caring supporters.

As for so many anonymous posters are concerned, did it occur to you that quite a few may also have been affiliated with Andrew and community, but have chosen to post anonymously for the time being until the feel safe to come forward and tell their stories with us.

Why are you so angry?. I am sensitive to your own inner pain.

Wednesday, 16 March, 2005  
Anonymous Roy said...

In response to the previous poster: you are very impatient my friend. I too am waiting eagerly for WHAT enlightenment's next post. But the wait is always worth it, the posts so thought provoking and the unfolding story so important. This is a blog and not a forum - don't ask it to be what it isn't.
By the way, those earlier posts didn't disappear - you have to look in previous months or else just scroll way down. Deida's story still amuses me each time I read it: see Oct 26 post.

- Roy

Thursday, 17 March, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

What I see of this recent poster is a fear-based attack upon the truth and credibility of those who have courageously come forward to expose the extensive and long-term abuse by Andrew and some of his cohorts.

I can see right through this nonsensical hot-air B.S. that is once again an attack attempting to discourage and demean the good work of truth-telling seen in this blog forum.

The wishing it would all just go away by the guilty ones will not much has come out already, and much more integrous honesty to come...

You don't scare me, nor discourage me recent poster.

No, in fact, I am more empowered by source itself, God, (and not any human beings) is my only guru now.

ha ha ha

Santosh Basu

Thursday, 17 March, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Love you Santosh. Thank you.

Thursday, 17 March, 2005  
Blogger Hal said...

To Enlightenment Student,

This is just a brief response to some of your points and criticisms regarding this blog.

Most of your points have been responded to very well by other comment posters. But a few seem to indicate some misunderstandings that I might be able to correct.

First, while I have listed myself as a "Contributor" to this blog, that does not mean this is my blog or that I created, run or manage it. I decided to name myself as a contributor after this blog was already in full swing because there were things I wished to say, and I felt that the message I wanted to convey would be served by publicly identifying myself. I don't always agree with everything done or said on this blog, but I still consider it a great forum, and am pleased to have the opportunity to contribute to it and to read the many thoughtful, heartfelt and intelligent contributions and comments posted on it.

In my opinion, the format of a blog, while perhaps not always ideal, seems to be working well here. If you find it does not, you, of course, are free to not participate in it.

The motives for my postings on this blog have been spelled out in almost every one of my postings. If you are not clear on what they are, I suggest you re-read my posts.

I was never "ousted" as an editor of WIE, but effectively resigned when I left Andrew's community, against his wishes and his attempts to persuade me to stay. The circumstances of my leaving are described briefly in my first post, "Breaking The Code Of Silence."

I can understand your impatience to hear more facts. But I think there have been many important facts already spelled out in my posts and others'. The facts already elucidated here provide much food for thought and discussion. I think some time between articles is needed to digest the revelations made and allow discussion. In addition, I regret to say that my time is limited. (Yes, I do have a life other than this blog). Each article and every fact stated in it is extensively researched and corroborated before publishing. This takes time. Please be patient. There is more to come.

Finally, Enlightened Student, I find it a bit humorous that you complain so loudly about many contributors' anonymity, while hiding behind a pseudonym yourself. I respect the right of people here to contribute anonymously, particularly in light of the sensitivity of the topic being discussed. You apparently do not. So what is your story, and why are you remaining anonymous, while condemning others who exercise the same right?

Thursday, 17 March, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

If I could make a similar point a little more subtlety than Enlightenment Student, who I think made some good points in a fairly aggressive writing style and people are reacting to the style rather than the content of his post, the blog is being run like you have predetermined the outcome you want to achieve and your publishing it through the eyes and heart of where you are with the experience and where you want it to go . My guess is that Raging Bull slapped a few faces in his time and was witness or aware of many other incidents which were somehow acceptable to you at the time. I suspect the long term members also share some responsibility for some of the ethical atrocities. Andre’s (Ernst’s) story is a case in point, as moving as his words were, the reality is that he was willingly participated for a very long period in the abandonment of his loved ones..

My experience of Andrew is through a loved one who turned her back on a loving family for 6 years, so in a sense I also am also a bonafide victim of the Cohen lunacy. Encouraged by her I attended half a dozen seminars and engaged with the peripheral of the community for a short while. I have read all his books and I think there is a greater dimension to the problems with Andrew than just his behavior within the inner community. Andrews fundamental weakness in my view isn’t his behavior , it’s the crappy plagiarized, irrational philosophy that he teaches. I say that with some authority as I have spent 25 years of my life as a practioner studying and teaching within several lineages of eastern philosophy the traditional way. Its from this perspective that many of his teachings seem so ridiculous, they just don’t stand scrutiny . My belief is that he is a complete charlatan and this is belief of many within the more traditional lineages.

My sister left as well and doesn’t want to even think about Andrew and her experiences so I will respect her wishes and not mention her name. I originally came across What Enlightenment after you or Helene copied and published 3-4 of my posts across from the Integral Naked forum on Andrew. You have since deleted a post of mine on this site because I assume it didn’t fit your views and was somewhat critical of both sides of the debate. I guess my fire about Andrew is the 6 years we lost from my sisters life and the extremely poor life outcomes she got from the experience.

I believe what your doing is extremely important and may I offer heartfelt congratulations to all that have come forward and spoken. I also think that your cause would be better supported if you let go a bit and let the Blog run wherever it needs to go. Rather than use the blog as some kind of group therapy for the departed possibly have your say, maybe even edit posts a bit if they become abusive as with any forum but dont publish articles (your not publishing articles and its not your magazine) just write posts like everyone else and tell us about what you experienced, just have your say as a victim and participant and leave it at that. Calling for Andrew to participate is a case in point, it reflects a naivety that probably was part of the reason you joined the community in the first place. The way one article is published and then the next dozen posts are published as comments that people might not read will eventually kill this forum and I don’t think that’s the result anyone wants.

Again I thank and congratulate everyone that has participated with their own personal stories. I think your doing something that should have been done a long time ago .

Craig Tindale

Friday, 18 March, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

I just have to note that, while I have read many criticisms of Andrew and my inner jury is still out while leaning towards innocence (not to the disrespect of many whose buttons, limits, emotions, and lives have been pushed to the edge), the defenses of Andrew here often seem to lean towrds anger, manipulation, and damage control. Please be very cautious about posts towards someone you hold in high regards. Sometimes our own states of being can indeed colour the picture in a less than clear manner.

While, from the perspective of faith and trust in Andrew's teachings the posts here may lead one deeper into confusion, we have to be willing to face our own collective absolute confusion with courage, confidence, and an open honesty. Whether this blog is a place for honest debate about a fallacy of spiritual perfection or a spiral of neverending confusion, we must be able to face it with absolute awareness without knowing the truth but wanting to know. Right?

Friday, 18 March, 2005  
Blogger mike said...

With reference to the original article, I don`t think that at this point in time Andrew could dismantle himself in the way that you suggest. I am sure that he did have a profound realisation with Poonja, and when I saw Andrew in 1990 he seemed more loving than what I have heard of him since. I believe he is sincere in his commitment to the Truth, and that if he saw some of his actions as "crimes of unconsciousness" he would change, but I don`t believe that at this point in time he sees his actions in that way.
If he were going to change it would have happened earlier, as his emotional response to the original realisation lessened in intensity, and he looked at the responses of his students to his actions (in my opinion, a good teacher will question himself if his students are not getting his message to check on how he is delivering it). Now, I believe his beliefs about himself are sufficiently supported by the students around him for him not to have to question himself. The next time that his self-image may get challenged is if his students left in sufficient numbers that he could no longer carry on in the belief that they were `failing` to live up to his realisation, or if he was forced out of his community into an enviroment where he didn`t have such control of the dynamics, such as if he was taken to court (a much more obvious example of this is Michael Jackson)

Saturday, 19 March, 2005  
Anonymous One said...

It is becoming apparent that there are some typical "attacks upon the victims" dynamics ocurring on this blog. This is a space in which reflection on one's own experience and evaluation of the postings of others can provide clarity to the subject of what is and has been occuring around Andrew Cohen and his community. Where does the need to criticize those who post here arise? It appears to be either an attempt to shift the focus from Andrew Cohen to some other subject, or the sadistic impulse to denegrate those who have suffered abuse at his command.
Why the need to try and control what anyone else chooses to contribute to this blog, or even the direction that it "should" take? What is the motivation of those who attack, either subtly or grossly?
If one does not agree or feels this blog is not being "run" properly, why log on?

Saturday, 19 March, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

To enlightenment student:
Your reply to my post and my response dated March 17

I agree that people do not choose to heal in public arenas, but the sharing of similar experiences and feedback from others can, and I repeat can be instrumental in guiding an individual to seek help within from God, or expand outwards to seek professional guidance as needed. Much good can come forth from knowing that you are not alone. For some people, especially the ones that are alone, for whatever reason, reading and sharing of said similar experiences in a loving environment of a blog forum can be such a blessing.

Consulting a counselor in today's age can also be a hit and miss situation no matter how highly a counselor comes recommended. I am a spiritual counselor with a high success rate with people of spiritual abuse who had consulted many other counselors, including new age counselors, before me. My therapy is no secret. It is God.

By the way is your name Keith eh?.

You want more facts. As Hall stated all revelations are researched to verify truth and many more are yet to come, so be patient.

What's your involvement with Andrew and community and your interest in our posters?.

You still have not revealed yourself and I affirm that you are angry and in pain.

Also do you want frontpage posting?.

Please open your heart.
Counselor Th.D.

Saturday, 19 March, 2005  
Blogger the Editors said...

A Note From The Blog Administrators--
A post has been removed from here for being overly insulting and off topic. We thank our participants for generally staying on topic and respecting the dignity of other participants in the discussion on this blog. We ask that discussion focus on the subject matter of the blog, and not its format or its commentators and contributors. If you have a comment on the blog's format, or any other comments or questions not on topic, please email them to us. Please also refer to our Comment Policy, posted on the sidebar of the homepage of this blog. If we get too many comments that do not comply with our Comment Policy, we will be forced to change to a format where comments and contributions must be emailed to the blog, rather than posted directly. Thank you for your cooperation.

Saturday, 19 March, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

It hurts me to take notice that the 'Jean Valjeans' of the world go to jail 'forever' while people like Andrew continue on with their abuse, unabated and unpunished.

Sunday, 20 March, 2005  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Is it continuing?

Monday, 21 March, 2005  

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